Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Streit Talk

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Streit Talk
- bmeltzer

Alleviating some of Timonen's workload sounds like a good plan, actually.

Everything is the blog is just...true.

It just is. I swear to God, reading the Internet today, you'd think the Flyers said they were acquiring Mark Streit to win the Norris Trophy next year.

There are two contracts that screwed the league as far as free-agent defensemen were concerned: Matt Carle's five-year deal with Tampa Bay and Sergei Gonchar's two-year deal at $5 million per at 38 years old.

The Flyers signed a younger guy than Gonchar at less than Carle's annual cap hit. In the market that other teams set -- which I know the Flyers weren't going to pay, considering they didn't come close to signing Carle -- it's laughable that people are all over Paul Holmgren about signing a guy who played 23 minutes a night last season, with a skill set that fits what the Flyers need.

Alleviating some of Timonen's workload sounds like a good plan, actually.
- bradleyc4

Not his power play workload, though. It's the "hard" minutes -- PK, even strength against opponents' top lines -- where he could use some relief.

The contract for Streit is definitely fair, but I question whether that was the best way for the Flyers to allocate that cap hit. Even putting aside the risks of giving a 35 year old that type of contract, offense isn't really the issue with Philly and that is the primary part of Streit's game. As an outsider, it strikes me that Holgren could have used that 5+ million in cap space on a player or two who would offer more help keeping the puck out of the net.

The contract for Streit is definitely fair, but I question whether that was the best way for the Flyers to allocate that cap hit. Even putting aside the risks of giving a 35 year old that type of contract, offense isn't really the issue with Philly and that is the primary part of Streit's game. As an outsider, it strikes me that Holgren could have used that 5+ million in cap space on a player or two who would offer more help keeping the puck out of the net.
- TheGreatNumber8

its "fair" in the sense that its on par with market value. the flyers didnt overpay in a different sense than anyone else would. however, i just still cant get over the going rate for a puck moving defenseman

As a Isles fan I must admit its stings a bit to lose Streit to a division rival for nothing. But he's an aging veteran and you have to respect the fact he wanted his final shot at getting millions of dollars, and I respect the fact the Isles not wanting to pay him 5+ mil over four years.

Yes- last season was not his best year defensively and he was on the third pairing because of that. He was often beaten to pucks and overpowered. But he has proven that when give PP minutes he is going to get at least 40 points. I think the next 2 seasons he will be a very solid addition if he is insulated from the oppositions top 2 lines, but after that who knows.

Honestly knowing what we know now I wish we just paid Carle last year. To me it's not the money that kills this deal its the years and the fact it's an over 35 contract. We just have the worst luck and whatever can go wrong usually does. That being said I think Streit will help us big time on breakouts but he is far from a savior. I guarantee by mid season people will be calling for homers head after Streit has a few defensive breakdown.

At the end of the day though I agree with you Bill this was a better option than gutting the future to get yandle as long as we still have the money to resign the young guys when the time comes

The contract for Streit is definitely fair, but I question whether that was the best way for the Flyers to allocate that cap hit. Even putting aside the risks of giving a 35 year old that type of contract, offense isn't really the issue with Philly and that is the primary part of Streit's game. As an outsider, it strikes me that Holgren could have used that 5+ million in cap space on a player or two who would offer more help keeping the puck out of the net.
- TheGreatNumber8

Yea I mean theres tons of defenseman out their in that price range but not alot of them that your going to get for a 4th round pick. And thats the thing that people dont realize, yea yandle and all the other names out their might be alot better and younger but you would have to give up Schenn, Couturier and draft picks to get them.... so literally Streit is the only option....

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Streit Talk
- bmeltzer

Some further musings:

This year, there were only 24 defencemen in the league older than Streit.

And he was born in December, so of those 24, 8 are his birth year (1977).

There were 8 guys born in 1976

4 born in 1975

3 in 1974

1 in 1973

So let's just say that the odds of him playing another four years are probably less than 50/50.

The contract for Streit is definitely fair, but I question whether that was the best way for the Flyers to allocate that cap hit. Even putting aside the risks of giving a 35 year old that type of contract, offense isn't really the issue with Philly and that is the primary part of Streit's game. As an outsider, it strikes me that Holgren could have used that 5+ million in cap space on a player or two who would offer more help keeping the puck out of the net.
- TheGreatNumber8

One of the biggest issues with the Flyers was puck movement from the back end, and being able to transition the puck from defense to offense. It was a big reason why they were a weak ES team. And why they struggled defensively. Streit helps in that area.

Some further musings:

This year, there were only 24 defencemen in the league older than Streit.

And he was born in December, so of those 24, 8 are his birth year (1977).

There were 8 guys born in 1976

4 born in 1975

3 in 1974

1 in 1973

So let's just say that the odds of him playing another four years are probably less than 50/50.
- Atomic Wedgie

Just get two years out of him, and then take the $1.75 cap hit for four years to buy out the final two seasons (assuming he's not hurt at the time).

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Streit Talk
- bmeltzer

Finally decided to stop creeping today (After almost 3 years now..) and join the conversation. I'll keep my first post quick and safe by just saying how much I appreciate all the time and effort you put into these blogs, Bill. It's nice to have a voice of reason in this sea of crap that other writers throw out there.

Also I'm a sucker for subtle puns.

Good post, Bill!

I'm looking for a bounce back year from Brayden Coburn as well. I think he's part of the solution going forward.

And yeah, I didn't think so before this move, but Mez and his salary for next year are goners for what will be pennies on the dollar.

For all the sturm und drang all over twitter and the internet with respect to Streit's numbers, I can't help but laugh. It's like these people haven't seen how Snider and Holmgren operate. They clearly aren't interested in winning the vaunted Salary Cap Championship and they aren't going to start now, with Snider just turning 80.

Some further musings:

This year, there were only 24 defencemen in the league older than Streit.

And he was born in December, so of those 24, 8 are his birth year (1977).

There were 8 guys born in 1976

4 born in 1975

3 in 1974

1 in 1973

So let's just say that the odds of him playing another four years are probably less than 50/50.
- Atomic Wedgie

Honestly, I don't think that means anything. Streit has only played 491 NHL games to this point. That's not a lot of mileage. I think the odds of him playing another four years, are pretty high. Now whether he remains effective and continues to play at a high level for all 4 years, is a different discussion.

Just get two years out of him, and then take the $1.75 cap hit for four years to buy out the final two seasons (assuming he's not hurt at the time).
- bradleyc4

35+ contract.

I don't think you can do that.

Can I get a ruling here?

The contract for Streit is definitely fair, but I question whether that was the best way for the Flyers to allocate that cap hit. Even putting aside the risks of giving a 35 year old that type of contract, offense isn't really the issue with Philly and that is the primary part of Streit's game. As an outsider, it strikes me that Holgren could have used that 5+ million in cap space on a player or two who would offer more help keeping the puck out of the net.
- TheGreatNumber8

Being able to move the puck out of the zone was a thorn in our side last season. One of the reasons that the Bruins are so successful defensively is that they are able to force teams to dump the puck and are able to get to them and move it quickly out of their end. While that has as much to do with the forward support you still need defensemen that can get to the puck and make the pass. Hopefully Streit provides us with that because it was sorely lacking last season.

35+ contract.

I don't think you can do that.

Can I get a ruling here?
- Atomic Wedgie

You can buy out a 35+ contract.

http://www.capgeek.com/fa...what-s-a-35-plus-contract

One of the biggest issues with the Flyers was puck movement from the back end, and being able to transition the puck from defense to offense. It was a big reason why they were a weak ES team. And why they struggled defensively. Streit helps in that area.
- MJL

Perhaps, but look at the teams that have had success in the SC playoffs the past few years. They are all built on big, physical defenses who clog the lanes, block shots, retrieve pucks by winning one on one battles in the corners, and, most importantly, wear down the opposition over the course of a best of 7 series by checking them relentlessly. Now of course there is more than one way to skin a cat, but if you ask me the Flyers defense has struggled to do all of the above (which I think we can all agree is critical for a d corpse to do) since losing Pronger. Streit brings a lot to the table, but none of the above.

I think the days of Scotty Bowman diffusing the Legion of Doom line by deploying puck movers to outlet the puck before they could engage their forecheck are over. That strategy is not what wins Cups anymore. So as good as Streit may be at breakout passes, I still think the Flyers could have allocated that 5 million cap hit better.

Honestly, I don't think that means anything. Streit has only played 491 NHL games to this point. That's not a lot of mileage. I think the odds of him playing another four years, are pretty high. Now whether he remains effective and continues to play at a high level for all 4 years, is a different discussion.
- MJL

This does not compute with the salary cap jokes I read on twitter yesterday.

It's my understanding that Mark Streit is a feeble old man, ready to steal Kimmo Timonen's walker at any minute!

Finally decided to stop creeping today (After almost 3 years now..) and join the conversation. I'll keep my first post quick and safe by just saying how much I appreciate all the time and effort you put into these blogs, Bill. It's nice to have a voice of reason in this sea of crap that other writers throw out there.

Also I'm a sucker for subtle puns.
- Roytastic

Portland? Awesome! Welcome creeper.

Being able to move the puck out of the zone was a thorn in our side last season. One of the reasons that the Bruins are so successful defensively is that they are able to force teams to dump the puck and are able to get to them and move it quickly out of their end. While that has as much to do with the forward support you still need defensemen that can get to the puck and make the pass. Hopefully Streit provides us with that because it was sorely lacking last season.
- mayorofangrytown

Disagree about the Bruins. If you watch, their defenseman frequently go into the corners and tie up the opposition and gain control of the puck by winning one on one battles and allowing the forwards to swoop in and get the puck. This is markedly different that what, say, Streit will try and do which is retrieve the puck and move it out before the forecheck is upon him. I just don't think that strategy works well anymore, especially in a dump and chase league.

Nice report on Coburn too... Yea, he had a bad season, but I swear if I hear one more "slow burn" comment here, or at games... It doesnt even make sense. If Coburn played like Mike Rathje did here, then you can say that.

Good post, Bill!

I'm looking for a bounce back year from Brayden Coburn as well. I think he's part of the solution going forward.

And yeah, I didn't think so before this move, but Mez and his salary for next year are goners for what will be pennies on the dollar.

For all the sturm und drang all over twitter and the internet with respect to Streit's numbers, I can't help but laugh. It's like these people haven't seen how Snider and Holmgren operate. They clearly aren't interested in winning the vaunted Salary Cap Championship and they aren't going to start now, with Snider just turning 80.
- johndewar

the mindless tweet were awesome

Perhaps, but look at the teams that have had success in the SC playoffs the past few years. They are all built on big, physical defenses who clog the lanes, block shots, retrieve pucks by winning one on one battles in the corners, and, most importantly, wear down the opposition over the course of a best of 7 series by checking them relentlessly. Now of course there is more than one way to skin a cat, but if you ask me the Flyers defense has struggled to do all of the above (which I think we can all agree is critical for a d corpse to do) since losing Pronger. Streit brings a lot to the table, but none of the above.

I think the days of Scotty Bowman diffusing the Legion of Doom line by deploying puck movers to outlet the puck before they could engage their forecheck are over. That strategy is not what wins Cups anymore. So as good as Streit may be at breakout passes, I still think the Flyers could have allocated that 5 million cap hit better.
- TheGreatNumber8

Those same teams have very strong breakout games. Due to defenseman that make quick accurate passes, and schemes that are well designed. LA was fantastic at this. So I disagree on that. That same strategy is being employed in the current Cup Finals. It's a skating and passing game.
There's no doubt that you have to be strong in the corners and along the wall. but puck movement is still paramount to success. Especially the way the Flyers try to play.